New York Central mining plausibility/information - Model Railroader Magazine (2024)

NYCentral1

• Member since
  December 2001
• From: Missouri
• 366 posts

Hi, I'm looking to get back into things MRR wise, and obviously by my avatar you can see I'm an NYC fan.

I've started thinking about a design for a layout, and I have a question regarding how plausible it would be to have a New York Central layout that primarily services a coal mine. I would like to have a small company owned town/houses/coal mine, and that would be the primary industry.

Did the NYC get much into coal country? Didtheyhave anything to do with runningcoal as freight, or did C&O/N&W, etc. mostly corner that market in the East? Typically you think fast, mainline freights with the NYC, and haven't seen much source material showing them hauling coal through the hills.

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NittanyLion

• Member since
  February 2008
• From: Potomac Yard
• 2,761 posts

I'm no NYC expert, but they were all over the northern tier and middle part of Pennsylvania so "probably."

They had tracks through Du Bois and Clearfield PA and that's heavy duty coal country.

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tomikawaTT

• Member since
  February 2005
• From: Southwest US
• 12,914 posts

Back when I was a Noo Yawker the NYC hauled a lot of coal - but, at that time,so did everyone else. Not much, "Through the hills," though - NYC was, "The Water Level Route," the ONLY water level route from the Atlantic Coast to the Mississippi north of Louisiana. Their one bad grade, West Albany Hill, would have been considered level track on the Santa Fe.

I don't know about coal mines on NYC rails (I never got into coal country back then) but I do know there was an immense aggregate processing plant and quarry south of Poughkeepsie on the east side of the Hudson. The crushers were clearly audible where I was on the opposite bank.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a Southern Nevada garage)

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NYCentral1

• Member since
  December 2001
• From: Missouri
• 366 posts

Looking at the NYC system map, it seems they got into West Virginia. I'm thinking maybe they hauled some coal in that area between the parent line and T&OC/K&M. Anyone see any pictures of this area or have any other information?

I'm not planning on building an exact area of the NYC, just wanted it to be a plausible region to be set in. I'm mainly looking to runMikesand Mohawks for power, and not much passenger equipment at all on this.

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train18393

• Member since
  June 2003
• From: US
• 429 posts

The NYC moved lots of coal through several railroads who were either Subsidaries, or eventually part of the NYC System. As a previous poster mentioned the Toledo and Ohio Central, which eventually became part of the NYC proper and ran from West Virginia up through Ohio to the Lakefront Docks in Toledo Ohio. The PMcK&Y was in the Pittsburg PA area and serviced coal mines south of Pittsburg, and was interchanged with the P&LE, which was also a member of the NYC System. If you do a Wikipedia on either of these two railroads you will probably find information. I have a fair size layout and since I lived in Toledo Ohio I felt as if I must have coal operations, as that is one of the things that made Toledo one of the largest rail centers in the USA. My Grandfather worked for the T&OC, my dad for the C&O, so on my layout the C&O has the coal mines, with interchange with the NYC. In Toledo the Transloaded coal into lake boats (think 700 plus feet) for steel industries in and around the great lakes, The Ford Motor company Rouge River plant was a big user, as well as others in Gary Indiana and elsewhere. in the Pittsburg area they moved coal that was eventually going to the steel industry around Pittsbury and to be shipped up through Erie PA. There was probably other NYC sources for coal, but that was two major sources going out of the coal fields. This is just scratching the surface and inmy generalizations I probably adjusted some of the minor points. There was also much coal used for heating of homes as well as powering boilers for factories and other medium to heavy industries, and I am sure some of the coal from those sources were used for that.

Paul

Dayton and Mad River Railroad

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"JaBear"

• Member since
  August 2011
• From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
• 6,085 posts

Gidday, I see that several mines in Clearfield County PA were on the NYC.

http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cleindexv.html

Cheers, the Bear.

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EmpireStateJR

• Member since
  July 2006
• From: Georgia
• 300 posts

NYCentral1

Looking at the NYC system map, it seems they got into West Virginia. I'm thinking maybe they hauled some coal in that area between the parent line and T&OC/K&M. Anyone see any pictures of this area or have any other information?

I'm not planning on building an exact area of the NYC, just wanted it to be a plausible region to be set in. I'm mainly looking to runMikesand Mohawks for power, and not much passenger equipment at all on this.

There is a mention of the NYC hauling coal in West Virginia on page 32 in the book New York Central Railroad Color History. There is also a photo of a NYC lightning striped GP7 with dynamic brakes and a coal hopper. The background is green mountains.

Another substantial NYC coal hauling location was the Ashtabula Docks

John R.

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dti406

• Member since
  July 2006
• From: Northfield Center TWP, OH
• 2,510 posts

If you were to get a USGS map of the Charleston, WV area you would see that the NYC had substantial mine run trackage east of Charleston, WV. So that would be a major source of the coal traffic on the NYC and a lot of that was shipped to Toledo and then sent by ship from Toledo to ports all around the Great Lakes.

Take a look at the Canada Southern website and peruse the freight car classes of the NYC and you will see they had a substantial number of Coal Hopper lots manufactured or rebuilt over time.

Rick J

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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NYCentral1

• Member since
  December 2001
• From: Missouri
• 366 posts

I appreciate everyone's help and information. So, I guess Pennsylvania or West Virginia would be good locales for this railroad I'll be building.

Regarding those areas, would it be ok to use New York Central lettered locomotives, or would I be more into the NYC "System" subsidary lettered roads only?

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wjstix

• Member since
  February 2002
• From: Mpls/St.Paul
• 13,780 posts

I I believe at least some of the NYC's 2-6-6-2s were used in coal country, and those were NYC engines. You might find more info if you post this on the New York Central forum at railroad.net. The T&OC merged into the NYC in 1938, so after that date engines would (I assume) just say "New York Central".

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=93&sid=5dc5cafc4894fd32380ec38e5791d5bd

http://nycshs.blogspot.com/2009/05/toledo-ohio-central.html

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/2-6-6-2/?page=nyc

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stilson4283

• Member since
  December 2007
• From: Dayton, OH
• 268 posts

The answer is yes. They had mines to provide coal for a number of their major railroad station including Buffalo Central Terminal, it used 72 tons of coal a day. Check out the NYCHS, they might have more information.

Another thing I found here:

http://www.donwinter.com/Railroad%20Infrastructure%20and%20Traffic%20Data/Coal%20Freight%20Flows.htm

Southwestern West Virginia

Most of the mines in southwestern West Virginia are served bybranches off the C&O main linealong the New and Kanawha River valleys, with a few of the mines on these valleys served by a long branch of the New York Central. Further south, the mines are served by branches off the Virginian and branches off the north side of the Norfolk & Western Pocahontas line. Coal traffic flows off those branches served by the New York Central generally heads north or northwest to customers in the industrial heartland.

Chris

Check out my railroad at: Buffalo and Southwestern

Photos at:Flicker account

YouTube:StellarMRR YouTube account

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NYCentral1

• Member since
  December 2001
• From: Missouri
• 366 posts

I think I have most of the basic information I need. I knew about the NYC Mallets, but honestly I'm not too interested in modeling them, nor have Iseen a brass model of oneanyway (so far).

The MR magazine Virginian project layout peaked my interest, and I want to make something in that style in a larger space. Now I can do something like that with the NYC.

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charlie9

• Member since
  February 2012
• 596 posts

the old big four cairo division reached as far south as cairo illinois and was almost all coal traffic. most of the activity was centered around harrisburg illinois where we humped and forwarded 4 to 5 hundred car loads each day. a lot of the coal went to utility plants in southern illinois and indiana and quite a bit went all the way to the great lakes to be loaded out on boats.

charlie

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wjstix

• Member since
  February 2002
• From: Mpls/St.Paul
• 13,780 posts

There was quite a lot of coal hauled out of mines in Ohio too.

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Doughless

• Member since
  December 2008
• From: Heart of Georgia
• 5,397 posts

I believe the NYC ran from Indianapolis to Evansville over a rather gradeless line and accessed the surface coal strip mines that populate southwestern Indiana via this route. They possibly accessed them directly or by switching with coal shortlines in the area.

The mines are still active and the line is used by the Indiana Southern RR now. You might do some research and discover that the history of this area might allow you to have an NYC coal train on a flat midwestern grade, if you desire.

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PRRPappy

• Member since
  May 2010
• 4 posts

NittanyLion

I'm no NYC expert, but they were all over the northern tier and middle part of Pennsylvania so "probably."

They had tracks through Du Bois and Clearfield PA and that's heavy duty coal country.

The line that ran to Clearfield wasthe Beech Creek branch. Theres some info on the web on this line at the links below. The second link has some links to other sites about the company towns.

http://www.nepaview.com/nyc-beech-creek-railroad.html

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=NYCS;action=display;num=1224509596

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carknocker1

• Member since
  January 2007
• From: Mobile Alabama
• 694 posts

I know the NYC's Big Four route in Southern Indiana and Southern Illinios had several coal mines as well as power plants and oil refineries . For what ever reason this part of the NYC dosn't get looked at too much , but it might be an idea !!

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csmincemoyer

• Member since
  January 2001
• From: Bradford PA
• 273 posts

The NYC did run from Corning NY into the Clearfield PA coalfields and actually ran through the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon region. The roadbed is now a Rail Trail.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/findapark/leonardharrison/index.htm

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dknelson

• Member since
  March 2002
• From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
• 11,427 posts

Actually the part of the NYC that you may want to investigate was one of its most isolated and unknown aspects -- northern Illinois where there was a surprising amount of coal mining that went on. I cannot say for certain that the NYC it self served any of those mines but it sure was within physical sight of them. This was perhaps the furthest and most isolaed extension of the New York Central, certainly the most isolated that I know of.

If you can find Streator IL on the map, the NYC came into town almost directly east/west. from Streator the NYC headed west and then north, crossing the Illinois River at Howe, then north and east to Ladd. I believe a mine at Seatonville was on the NYC, although the trackage was also shared with C&NW. It then headed north and west again to Zearing on trackage shared with the CB&Q. I believe there was some other shared trackage in the Ladd area and it may be that the NYC had other small branches near Ladd. You can still see huge piles of mining tailings in the Ladd area.

It was in this general area that the Milwaukee Road had its famous St Paul mine at Cherry, site of one of the most awful mine fires and disasters and very thoroughly documented, including the heart breaking "goodbye" letters written to their families by trapped and suffocating miners, at the Cherry public library, which also features a superb HO scale train diorama showing the entire mine area as it was served by rail. The line to that mine came due north from Ladd. There are still piles of mine tailings at Cherry near the cemetary that holds so many of the miners.

Dave Nelson

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wjstix

• Member since
  February 2002
• From: Mpls/St.Paul
• 13,780 posts

Although this site is about ( ) Penn Central, it does have info about some ex-NYC coal lines in Pennsylvania....

http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/m/x/mxb13/RRS/PennCentral.html

I don't recall coming across references to NYC hauling coal from Illinois. I think by the time they got there, Illinois Central, Milwaukee Road and other more "local" roads had the business sown up.

I do still think the most NYC coal lines were SE Ohio into West Virginia.

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Doughless

• Member since
  December 2008
• From: Heart of Georgia
• 5,397 posts

I didn't realize that a NYC line went from Terre Haute to Evansville. Since there are many coal mines is SW Indiana, I'm sure that line saw a good share of coal traffic.

A link to info about an old NYC line to a coal mine near Terre Haute.

http://www.abandonedrails.com/Riley_Coal_Spur

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BRAKIE

• Member since
  October 2001
• From: OH
• 17,574 posts

There was several mines on NYC's T&OC line out of W.Va and throughSouthern Ohio..

NYC served several mines on its system.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.

"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"

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Trace Fork

• Member since
  December 2008
• From: Mid-Ohio
• 94 posts

You may want to research the Nicholas Fayette & Greenbrier railroad. This line was formed in 1932, and jointly operated by C&O and NYC It served the Greenbrier coal fields in West Virginia. The NYC generally operated the line north of Rainelle WV. Coal, (and lumber from the large mill at Rainelle), was hauled out by the NYC's Kanawha & Michigan subsidiary via connection at Swiss WV. I am not certain how many, if any, mines were served solely by NYC, as I have not researched it.

I have several C&O historical society published books that reference this line. Some show pictures of the engine terminal at Rainelle populated with C&O 2-6-6-2s and NYC USRA 2-8-2s.

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cefinkjr

• Member since
  October 2004
• From: Allen, TX
• 1,320 posts

"Another substantial NYC coal hauling location was the Ashtabula Docks."

This was the Central's Ashtabula Branch from Youngstown, OH. NYC ran coal from the P&LE at Youngstown to Lake boats (ground storage in winter) and iron ore (in the same hoppers) from Ashtabula to Youngstown.

Mikes would certainly have been common but I doubt Mohawks would have been used there. Mohawks were built for speed on the Water Level route and the Ashtabula Branch sure wasn't built for speed. The southbound grade out of the harbor was so steep that cuts of cars were made into trains in the yard at Carson, a few miles south.

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