Putting a suspension setup together....can you help me? [Archive] (2024)

ekozy1

2nd October 2009, 15:50

I'm not knowledgable at ALL about suspensions. I don't know what springs match up well with which shocks. The same goes with sway bars, bump stops(if I even need to change them from stock), etc.

I'm wanting to change the setup on my car from the stock setup (that sucks, might I add) to something that will accomplish the following goals:

1. Lower the car
I don't know how much lower I want to go, since I've never seen other
lowered Miatas to know. Will I even notice a 1" drop? Or is a 2" better?

2. Minimize body roll
The car rolls a lot now, or so I think, in the corners.

3. Make sure that the ride is still tolerable, as my car is a DD.

I don't think I want to fork out the money for Koni's. I would like to stick with either Tokicos or KYB AGXs. Can anyone help me out with what springs might match well with either of these shocks and meet the criteria I'm looking for? I had a guy tell me(i think I remember this correctly) that Flyin Miata springs work decent with the KYBs and provide for some lowering....but I could be wrong.
I'm not wanting to spend an arm and a leg on this setup. It's only my toy car, as my wife doesn't enjoy driving in it much. I'll end up buying a family vehicle in the next 2 years anyhow, but don't plan to get rid of the Miata.

I've got about $900 to work with. I'd like to stretch that money enough so that I could do the suspension AND a HDHCM2 bar. But something's telling me that isn't going to be possible.

Any help/ideas/tips/suggestions are much appreciated.

91BaseGuy

2nd October 2009, 18:35

I know you said you don't want to spend the money on the KONIs, but I think you should consider just getting KONIs and keeping your stock springs.

Reasons:
1) Konis have adjustable height settings. There are snap-rings that hold the lower spring perches. The lowest setting with stock springs will lower the car about 1", which brings me to point 2.

2) Don't go too low. Yes, it looks cool, but NA Miatas just don't have much suspension travel to begin with, especially in back. If you go too low, you will either be riding on the bump stops or will have to cut the bump stops down.

3) Konis are excellent. The range of rebound damping adjustment is huge. Full-soft is very comfortable, but still much more controlled than stock. Full-stiff is race-car stiff.

4) I would save the money on springs to spend it to upgrade to KONIs and spend what's left on Flyin Miata anti-sway bars.

Good luck.

aruba

2nd October 2009, 18:37

Nice91

2nd October 2009, 18:52

Thumper 13

2nd October 2009, 19:04

Red_5

2nd October 2009, 19:55

I was in the same boat as you and bought the FM stage 2 w/ Illuminas about 2 years ago before I ever went to the track. I think it's a great street setup but once I started taking my car to the track, I immediately wished I had gone with the GCs rather than the FM springs. I could go longer without having to upgrade again. It's a very cheap upgrade and I think well worth it.

e

Paradox

2nd October 2009, 22:09

ekozy1

2nd October 2009, 23:07

Thanks for the input guys. I think I might be able to piece together a setup that works just as well as the FM Stage 2 without as high of a price though. Such as this.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOKICO-ILLUMINA-SHOCKS-SPRINGS-MAZDA-MIATA-99-05_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhas hZitem1c0c7d203bQQitemZ120468611131QQptZMotorsQ5fC arQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

It comes with 4 Tokico Illuminas Shocks and 4 Tokico High Perf. Lowering Springs (1.25" lowering) and it's only $500. All I would have left to pick up would be sways.

Crystal90

3rd October 2009, 04:25

Thanks for the input guys. I think I might be able to piece together a setup that works just as well as the FM Stage 2 without as high of a price though. Such as this.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOKICO-ILLUMINA-SHOCKS-SPRINGS-MAZDA-MIATA-99-05_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhas hZitem1c0c7d203bQQitemZ120468611131QQptZMotorsQ5fC arQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

It comes with 4 Tokico Illuminas Shocks and 4 Tokico High Perf. Lowering Springs (1.25" lowering) and it's only $500. All I would have left to pick up would be sways. You'll also need NB Mounts/Bumps....Also, I doubt those springs will "work just as well" as the proven FM springs/Illumina combo.

ekozy1

3rd October 2009, 11:13

Thumper 13

3rd October 2009, 11:19

Thanks for the input guys. I think I might be able to piece together a setup that works just as well as the FM Stage 2 without as high of a price though. Such as this.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOKICO-ILLUMINA-SHOCKS-SPRINGS-MAZDA-MIATA-99-05_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhas hZitem1c0c7d203bQQitemZ120468611131QQptZMotorsQ5fC arQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

It comes with 4 Tokico Illuminas Shocks and 4 Tokico High Perf. Lowering Springs (1.25" lowering) and it's only $500. All I would have left to pick up would be sways.

Tokico springs beware. Too soft for the drop. Buy the shocks and stick with stock springs until you can afford proper springs. Don't forget new bump stops either FM or Fat Cat. Boots are not required.If you have the money Buy the FM springs or look into Allsprings for custom sizes.

my97miata

3rd October 2009, 11:19

ekozy1

3rd October 2009, 11:22

Ok....so let's see if I'm on the right track here....

Tokico Illumina Shocks
FM Springs

Will this combo lower me 1.5"-2"? I think that's where I want to end up when all is said and done.
What is the stock height on a 95?
Are sway bars a necessity right away? Or could i get away with the shocks and springs for a while until I save enough money for sways?

aruba

3rd October 2009, 11:54

Ok....so let's see if I'm on the right track here....

Tokico Illumina Shocks
FM Springs

Will this combo lower me 1.5"-2"? I think that's where I want to end up when all is said and done.
What is the stock height on a 95?
Are sway bars a necessity right away? Or could i get away with the shocks and springs for a while until I save enough money for sways?

I do not think you will get that much lowering with FM springs -- more likely about half that much. I also suggest you buy the 36mm NB bump-stops sold by FM or Fat Cat Mortorsports. If you want to minimize lean you will need stiffer sways (I recommend the adjustable FMs) and keep in mind that stiffer springs will also noticably reduce body lean in corners (and stiffer springs plus stiffer sways virtually eliminate lean).

ekozy1

3rd October 2009, 11:56

I do not think you will get that much lowering with FM springs -- more likely about half that much.

Ok, so then what springs WILL give me a 1.5" - 2" drop?

Thumper 13

3rd October 2009, 12:40

Ok, so then what springs WILL give me a 1.5" - 2" drop?

FleaBay or you can get Tein ( not those damn S techs ) check Emilio's site,or look at All spring. Get 6" front and 7 " rear the Illuminas are good to 450# front and 350 # rear. 2 1/2 " diameter. There are other places to buy springs search the web. The FleaBay 5 1/2 will put you at 11 3/4 and 12 which will leave you with NOT MUCH suspension travel,maybe an inch if you are lucky without going to spacers. Fat Cat or FM bumps and you may find you need to trim those puppies and lastly NB mounts.

Go back and read the Quintessential Ebay coilover thread. There is some useful info in there

BeerBurner

3rd October 2009, 12:49

I have the FM Stage 2 + front swaybar w/OEM rear and a Lanny alignment. I'm very happy with the setup as it handles both DD duties as well as the track. Granted, it's not a hardcore track suspension, but it gets the job done and I'm happy with the overall compromise I get from it.

As mentioned, it won't appreciably lower the car. I think on my '90 I might have gone down by a half-inch. At first, I was a bit bummed by the lack of noticable lowering but I have decided that the results are more important than the looks, and it's nice to not fear snow/speed bumps/steep driveways.

Just my $0.02, of course. If you want the looks of a lowered suspension than this probably isn't the way to go. If your goal is better handling then you may want to consider it.

By the way, my avatar picture is with stock suspension and a front swaybar so that's not an adequate judge of the body roll of what I have now. ;)

BB.

ekozy1

3rd October 2009, 12:56

FleaBay or you can get Tein ( not those damn S techs ) check Emilio's site,or look at All spring. Get 6" front and 7 " rear the Illuminas are good to 450# front and 350 # rear. 2 1/2 " diameter. There are other places to buy springs search the web. The FleaBay 5 1/2 will put you at 11 3/4 and 12 which will leave you with NOT MUCH suspension travel,maybe an inch if you are lucky without going to spacers. Fat Cat or FM bumps and you may find you need to trim those puppies and lastly NB mounts.

Go back and read the Quintessential Ebay coilover thread. There is some useful info in there

Already read that thread yesterday.
I'm not really even sure what the difference/pros/cons are between coilovers and buying shocks and springs.

Alik

4th October 2009, 06:11

Tabby

4th October 2009, 07:10

Thumper 13

4th October 2009, 09:08

ggungel

4th October 2009, 11:15

Considering that stock Miata has about 3" of shock travel, 2" lowering will leave you with 1" of shock travel, and, for that you'll need shocks much better than Koni's or Illuminas or Bislteins (think revalved Bilsteins/ Koni Race/etc) and springs in excess of 700lbs front.

+1 on that. Seriously look at FM rear shock mounts, or FCM top hats all around, to recover some of that shock travel. Even with those, you will riding on the bump stops much of the time on anything but glass, unless your springs are in the 700 front, 350+ rear catagory. That would be like riding on steel rods on regular roads. Expect to lose tire grip on bumpy corners (most are around my area) due to lack of suspension compliance. Heck, most bump stops are longer than 1" (24.5mm), so you'd likely be riding on them all the time.

For myself, I ride on Northern IL roads in and west of Rockford year round in my 97 NA. Even with a GC setup of 375/250 springs, and the car lowered less than an inch on stock NA top hats, I bottomed out my rear AGXs multiple times in the last year. Just switched to a FM 1.5 suspension setup which includes the FM rear shock mounts. The car is sitting at 13" center wheel to fender front, and 13 1/8" rear. Not sure I'd want to go any lower than that, given winter road heaving, speed bumps, and "interesting" gas station driveway ramps, not to mention becoming a snow plow in January/February.

ggungel

4th October 2009, 11:25

mx594m

4th October 2009, 11:32

700 lbs front springs? whoa! I dont think you would like that setup on the street or the track

go to the FCM website, they have an excel spreadsheet that can be used to "balance" shocks, springs, sways

- I will share the details of my NA suspension [94 M]

re-vavled Bilsteins
400 front/275 rear springs
949 end links
27 mm tubular front sway
NO rear sway

alignment [with driver IN car, 1/2 tank gas]

front: -1.0 camber, 0 toe, 4.5->5.0 caster, 13" height
rear: -1.2 camber, 1/16" toe, 13.25" height

I know that this is more expensive than your target, but consider the alignment specs

and plug my setup into the speadsheet and note the result and using that as your objective
plug values for your components into the spreadsheet and vary till you see which moves you closer to your obective

the link: http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/FRC_1_8NA/FCM_MSDS_1_8NA.htm

wallijonn

4th October 2009, 14:03

The car rolls a lot now, or so I think, in the corners.

Just increase the front sway bar one size up, say, from 19mm to 22.225mm. Keep the rear bar connected.

Make absolutely sure that you buy the polyurethane bump stops. There is no other option.

Thumper 13

4th October 2009, 18:13

Already read that thread yesterday.
I'm not really even sure what the difference/pros/cons are between coilovers and buying shocks and springs.

Coilovers are the same thing as shocks and springs. All Miatas are coilover as in coil spring over shock suspension.

Tabby

4th October 2009, 22:04

Coilovers are the same thing as shocks and springs. All Miatas are coilover as in coil spring over shock suspension.

Yes, any way you slice it, a coil spring surrounding a shock can be considered a "coil over". The term has kinda morphed into some manner of preload adjustable coil spring set up, that isn't a MacPhearson strut{spelling?}.
It can either be an integral part of the shock, or as an add on to the shock, like the add on collars from "GC". You auto folks use them to set your ride height and/or corner weight. On motorcycles we call it setting our "sag".

wallijonn

4th October 2009, 22:45

ekozy1,

And of course, the reason why there may be a lot of body roll could be because the shocks are blown.

ekozy1

5th October 2009, 16:46

Well, I'm not concerned with driving on the Indiana roads. I'm moving to Phoenix within the next 1-2 months. Roads out there are smooth as butter. That's why I want to aim for somewhere between 1.5" and 2" of lowering.

This is driving me crazy. I am afraid to buy something, only to have it end up being all wrong.

wallijonn

5th October 2009, 17:50

I'm moving to Phoenix within the next 1-2 months. Roads out there are smooth as butter.

The richer cities have better roads - the Scottsdales, the Ahwatukees, the Estrella Parks, et. al. But the Glendales, Sun Citys, Phoenixs have horrible roads. Tempe should be okay since it is a University city and Mill Street is a tourist spot. Even I17 has truck ruts which should give your Mia cowl the shakes. Now, once you get out of the city and head towards Flagstaff or Tucson, then you'll be able to do 95mph no problem. But in the city? Forgetaboutit.

But, yeah, there are plenty of low-riders out here. I always laugh when they try to go over speed bumps.

Thumper 13

5th October 2009, 17:53

ekozy1,

And of course, the reason why there may be a lot of body roll could be because the shocks are blown.

Bet it rides like an old Buick duce and a quarter with blown shocks when leaning into a turn. More like listing than leaning :D FM 2.5 with new shocks springs sways and bumps on those smooth as butter roads. You'll think you died and went to road handling heaven. Or just go with any old junk, 11" ride height the ride quality really will not matter just get really really good bumps because you will be on them all the time.

ekozy1

8th October 2009, 12:16

wallijonn

8th October 2009, 12:51

It depends if that's for the GM or ME. If it's for the ME - it only deserves the best. Pass on that package because your Indiana roads will probably beat the heck out of it.

I've heard some Tein springs tend to sag. So be prepared to repeat the process in the future. Maybe it's the counterfeit Teins that are being sold on EBay. But still, I wouldn't go with any manufacturer who only warranties their springs for a year or two.

If you do any type of aggressive driving, pass on the Tokico HPs. If you get the Illuminas, get the whole FM NB package for the NA.

A pair? Don't you mean a set of four? Never replace just two shocks on a car. Same for tyres. Always replace in sets of four.

If possible don't drop your car below 13"f/13.5"r. Once you do you will need ever thinner bump stops to stay off the bump stops.

It's much easier if you just go with the FM NB kit. Then you add NB tophats and poly bump stops.

IMO, you shouldn't try to save money on a Miata. Cut the cable, cancel the cell phone contracts, disconnect the satellite dishes, cut back on buying CDs, DVD and games, avoid eating at fast food places - save all the money you can and put it into quality parts for the Miata. Do it right the first time.

Nice91

8th October 2009, 12:52

ekozy1,
Measure from the center of each wheel to the fender lip and tell us your current ride height. Most are in the range of 12"-14".
From what I've read, it may be in your best interest to skip the Tokico HP's and be careful of faux Tein springs on eBay.

A great daily driver suspension on the cheap would be FM or Racing Beat sways, stock springs, KYB SB108 bump stops/boots and either KYB GR2 or Koni Str.t shocks (and keep your stock upper mounts)......or like wallijonn said, pull out the cash.

ekozy1

8th October 2009, 13:16

It depends if that's for the GM or ME. If it's for the ME - it only deserves the best. Pass on that package because your Indiana roads will probably beat the heck out of it.

GM and ME??? Huh? I'm moving to Phoenix in 3 weeks. Indiana roads don't concern me at all because of this.

I've heard some Tein springs tend to sag. So be prepared to repeat the process in the future. Maybe it's the counterfeit Teins that are being sold on EBay. But still, I wouldn't go with any manufacturer who only warranties their springs for a year or two.

Dually noted.

If you do any type of aggressive driving, pass on the Tokico HPs. If you get the Illuminas, get the whole FM NB package for the NA.

I'll take that into consideration. I still think I can put together a setup that's just as good as that one for less though.

A pair? Don't you mean a set of four? Never replace just two shocks on a car. Same for tyres. Always replace in sets of four.

My bad....I meant 4. Not a pair.

If possible don't drop your car below 13"f/13.5"r. Once you do you will need ever thinner bump stops to stay off the bump stops.

13" front and 13.5" rear....got it. But what is STOCK height??? I think I'll end up picking up a set of NB rear mounts too.

It's much easier if you just go with the FM NB kit. Then you add NB tophats and poly bump stops.

IMO, you shouldn't try to save money on a Miata. Cut the cable, cancel the cell phone contracts, disconnect the satellite dishes, cut back on buying CDs, DVD and games, avoid eating at fast food places - save all the money you can and put it into quality parts for the Miata. Do it right the first time.

Yeeeeeah the only problem with doing as you just suggested is that my wife would divorce me in a heartbeat. LOL

ekozy1

8th October 2009, 16:27

I found these online....
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/pts/1402527891.html

Those springs coupled with some Tokico Illuminas, FM front and rear sways, and NB rear mounts would give me a ride height that looks good (i saw pictures of it with this combo already) and still be driveable. Plus, assuming that there aren't a ton of miles on these springs, it's a really good price!

ekozy1

8th October 2009, 18:18

Those springs coupled with some Tokico Illuminas, FM front and rear sways, and NB rear mounts

Would Jackson Racing Sway Bars work just the same as FM bars would?

zooki

8th October 2009, 19:13

Keep in mind the lower you go, the stiffer you may want the springs to be...bouncy or compressed springs when you're low is not good on the fenders or the driving experience. Thats whats nice about a linear vs a progressive spring. Its gonna feel stiffer, and will be my choice, whether I'm at 1" or 3" lower. That'd be the newer version of the FM springs btw. From my experience, most lowering springs are progressive in design.

progressive = start into a semi-aggressive turn and the car leans a little, then begins to stiffen up for remainder of the turn...

linear = the car starts out and finishes the turn feeling flatter or more consistent throughout the turn. Might feel a little stiffer going down the road vs the progressive.

I've been looking for a suspension for awhile now. If I don't go "adjustable" coilovers, I'll go with the FM linear springs. The specs/numbers on the rates look good too, a nice compromise (did I mention the linear thing! :thumbs:).

nandos_beat

8th October 2009, 22:29

wallijonn

9th October 2009, 00:31

wallijonn

9th October 2009, 00:34

GM and ME??? Huh? I'm moving to Phoenix in 3 weeks. Indiana roads don't concern me at all because of this.

hahahahahahahaha.

1996 Green Mica
1995 M Edition

hahahahahahahaha.

I still think I can put together a setup that's just as good as that one for less though.
With new parts? The Illuminas and FM springs were engineered together, I believe. It would be kind of hard to match it with Koni Sports or Bilsteins. It can't be done with KYBs (GR2s or AGXs). Tein? The trick with the FM kit is to get it in NA flavour. Then it brings it down to stock '90 heights (13"/13.5"). (Now, if what you want to do is lower the car - that's a whole other can of worms.) To replicate the FM set-up you'd have to go with 2.5" springs to get 325#f/225#r (323 pound, front/225 pounds, rear) combos. Even if you went with GC, Ground Control, coil over sleeves and springs, that's $400 right there. Then add $500 in Koni NA shocks and you're over budget. Add bump stops and you're at $1000. Racing Beat springs? Forgetaboutit. You'd probably have to go with H&R springs on Bilsteins. That's about $630. The problem, of course, is the valving. Will the NA HDs be tamed by the H&R springs? I don't know. But if you decide to go with Apex springs for $130 - well don't say you weren't warned.

There's plenty of horror stories here if you read long enough.

Trust me. You don't want to put el-cheapo parts on your Miata. If money is what you're trying not to spend, then throw on some GR2s on the stock springs, add $100 in bump stops, and be done with it for the next 5 to 8 years. $400 seems cheap enough, no? Any cheaper and you're looking at used parts.

So, which car are you thinking of doing? The Mica Green '96? If the ride heights are too high, just throw on some '90-'93 stock springs to get it down to 13"f/13.5"r.

Oh, and if you do decide to lower it - keep the original parts for the next buyer who will want to undo what you did.

nandos_beat

9th October 2009, 00:38

tc200

9th October 2009, 00:49

miata_racer

9th October 2009, 01:49

wsell everyone goes with what everyone else has but I'll say what a few have said but most haven't...

Shocks...you get what you pay for. The bilstein is a good shock but too stiff for most tastes...koni sports are great...about $500 there...

Shock mounts...this is where it gets tricky...the FCM mounts are over $200...ISC racing mounts are under $200 shipped (which is what I got).....or you could get OEM 99 mounts on 99 shocks...it's all up to you. I had NB mounts on my NB shocks and went to ISC mounts...why? More travel and less to no contact on the bump stops.

Springs...eh...its taste...

Bump stops...go with FCM's shorter ones or there are sone 1.75" ones @ Resuspension that are cheap and work great.

SO if it was my $$$ you were spending I'd get some Koni Sports (500), REsuspension bump stops (about $40 shipped), FM springs (250), and a nice RB hollow front bar (150).

Then get it aligned with about 1.5 neg all around with 0 toe up front and 1/8 toe in out back. That should be a civil conservative alignment.

Crystal90

9th October 2009, 04:10

I found these online....
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/pts/1402527891.html

Those springs coupled with some Tokico Illuminas, FM front and rear sways, and NB rear mounts would give me a ride height that looks good (i saw pictures of it with this combo already) and still be driveable. Plus, assuming that there aren't a ton of miles on these springs, it's a really good price!

I recently installed FM1 springs with Illuminas, FM Mounts in rear, stock mounts up front, 40mm bumps f/r. I LOVE THIS SETUP! Very nice ride even at 12" in front. I find shock settings of 3f and 2r to be perfect for street use.

Would Jackson Racing Sway Bars work just the same as FM bars would?

I think I'm going to go with a RB hollow bar/adj. end links up front and maybe remove rear bar.

Crystal90

9th October 2009, 04:28

and NB rear mounts would give me a ride height that looks good (i saw pictures of it with this combo already)

...if you're talking about Kenaku's car, he's on stock NA mounts. NB mounts will lower about a 1/2" more unless you add risers. FM mounts don't change ride height, just add travel :)

Alik

9th October 2009, 06:32

give me a ride height that looks good

Please, understand this.
We love the way our cars look, and we're not haters of low riders.

We simply ridicule them by taking the turns and bumps at double to triple the speed.

When it comes to your suspension, given the initial restricted shock travel on stock Miata, a slight (0.5"-1") drop will be significant. Couple that with some 15" rims and low(er) profile tires, and you'll have the most desired look.

But, if you continue down this path, you'll discourage everyone from assisting you in having the best sports car (for the least amount of money :D), and will end up with a ride that you'll hate, and will have to do all over again.

So, forget about the looks, forget about the Tokico HP's, get decent shocks.

Reviewing your goals, get either AGX over stock springs with FCM mounts, or FM Stage 1 kit.
It'll be similar money, but Illumina shocks in FM stuff are much more superior to relatively decent AGX.

Suspension is not where you want cut corners cost-wise.

Red_5

9th October 2009, 09:11

What's wrong with the FM Stage 1.5, 2, 2.5 (not sure what sways you want or if your going to go with NB tophats) with Ground Control sleeves? Unless I'm missing something, it will provide any reasonable ride height your looking for and is a combination that has been put together by people that have a pretty good idea about what they're doing.

e

miata_racer

9th October 2009, 10:05

I think the 1.5 is a decent kit...a bit pricey for the fancy mounts...but it's a good kit. All you really need for sways is a front bar. That's it. Stock rear works fine.

What's wrong with the FM Stage 1.5, 2, 2.5 (not sure what sways you want or if your going to go with NB tophats) with Ground Control sleeves? Unless I'm missing something, it will provide any reasonable ride height your looking for and is a combination that has been put together by people that have a pretty good idea about what they're doing.

e

wallijonn

9th October 2009, 11:25

The trick with the FM kit is to get it in NA flavour.

Correction. The trick with the FM kit is to get it in NB flavour. imo.

Some people have complained that with the FM NA Stage 1 kit they end up on the bump stops. So, basically, you should buy the FM rear mounts. Why take the chance? So the one to get would be the FM NA Stage 1.5 kit at $943.

Going with the FM NB kit at $659 you have to add NB tophats for another $100 and bumpstops for another $100 for a total of $859.

The difference is that the NA kit will lower the car but the NB kit will keep it at '90 ride heights.

wallijonn

9th October 2009, 11:30

What's wrong with the FM Stage 1.5, 2, 2.5 ... with Ground Control sleeves?

GC makes Illumina sleeves?

Nice91

9th October 2009, 13:35

ekozy1

9th October 2009, 16:39

Oops....my bad. I sold the '95 "GM" a few months ago. I totally forgot to change that. It's fixed now.

Ok.....Here's what I'm going with. Chastize me all you want, but it's what I'm doing for now. Eventually I might upgrade it, but that will all depend on whether I've still got the car in a few years or not. I also had to spend some $$$ on my Vmax, so the fundage for the Miata dropped down a bit. I had to pick up a new BBS center cap, heater core, and a/c condenser too because those parts are bad. I'm picking up the Tokico Illumina shock and spring combo that I found on ebay for around $500. Those will go on the car for the time being, and I'll upgrade to FM springs at some time in the future. I'm also going to see if I can find a seb of NB mounts for the rears.

A friend of mine worked for a Mazda race team in Indy that just folded, and he's gonna see what he can get me in the way of sway bars. I should be able to score those rather cheap since the team isn't operating anymore.

nocrash

9th October 2009, 17:01

Shock mounts...this is where it gets tricky...the FCM mounts are over $200...ISC racing mounts are under $200 shipped (which is what I got).....or you could get OEM 99 mounts on 99 shocks...it's all up to you. I had NB mounts on my NB shocks and went to ISC mounts...why? More travel and less to no contact on the bump stops.

Which springs did you use with your NB shocks on your NA? What was your ride height after the springs settled?
In about a month I will start my suspension project which will consist of new energysuspension bushings everywhere, NB Bilsteins, FM first generation NB springs, and not sure on the stock NB tophats or ISC. What bumpstop are you using?

Thanks

miata_racer

9th October 2009, 22:12

For springs the FM ones look like a good spring...or maybe the RB ones. I've had the RB ones before but not the FM

My personal setup is a bit different. I use ground control sleeves on bilsteins with 700lb front and 450 rear springs

wallijonn

11th October 2009, 00:21

I'm picking up the Tokico Illumina shock and spring combo that I found on ebay for around $500. ... I'll upgrade to FM springs at some time in the future. I'm also going to see if I can find a set of NB mounts for the rears.

If they're first generation FM springs then there probably isn't too much reason to go to the second gens. (Unless you don't like progressive springs and would rather have the linear type of stock springs.)

If they are FM NA shocks then why go with just the NB rear mounts? To lower it another 0.5"? Once you get into the driver's seat the rears will probably drop - in which case your rears will be riding lower than the fronts. Great for turns but probably not too good for high speed freeway driving.

If you install the FM springs and find your rears hitting the bump stops (you didn't mention whether or not you'll be upgrading to FM bumpstops - you really should) then just add the FM rear shock mounts for $263.

ggungel

11th October 2009, 07:48

... If they are FM NA shocks then why go with just the NB rear mounts? To lower it another 0.5"? Once you get into the driver's seat the rears will probably drop - in which case your rears will be riding lower than the fronts. Great for turns but probably not too good for high speed freeway driving.

If you install the FM springs and find your rears hitting the bump stops (you didn't mention whether or not you'll be upgrading to FM bumpstops - you really should) then just add the FM rear shock mounts for $263.

NB mounts, as wallijonn says, will lower the car. They raise both the height of the top spring mount and the shock shaft mount. If you install on just the rear, then just that end will be lowered. FM rear shock mounts do not lower the car. They do provide additional suspension travel. They maintain the original top spring mount height, while raising the height of the top shock mount giving the shock more room to play before it bottoms out.

FM bumpstops, or FCM bumpstops, are one of the best bang for buck ways to improve your ride. If you are lowering your car, one or the other or an equivalent are essential to reduce the jarring ride a lowered car can give over bad roads.

ekozy1

11th October 2009, 09:30

NB mounts, as wallijonn says, will lower the car. They raise both the height of the top spring mount and the shock shaft mount. If you install on just the rear, then just that end will be lowered. FM rear shock mounts do not lower the car. They do provide additional suspension travel. They maintain the original top spring mount height, while raising the height of the top shock mount giving the shock more room to play before it bottoms out.

FM bumpstops, or FCM bumpstops, are one of the best bang for buck ways to improve your ride. If you are lowering your car, one or the other or an equivalent are essential to reduce the jarring ride a lowered car can give over bad roads.

I don't know why, but when I typed "NB rear mounts" I swore to god I was talking about FM rear mounts. I don't know why I typed NB. The FM mounts will have to be put off for a while though because they are a bit more than I can afford to spend right now. And yes, I'm getting new bumps as well, just don't know which ones yet. Cheap is good in my book.

wannafbody

11th October 2009, 09:57

wallijonn

11th October 2009, 16:03

You could get ISC mounts as they are cheaper.

But then he may be forced to go with adjustable perches because the ISC mounts will lower the car. The usual suggestion is to go with 1" front and 1.5" rear ISC top hats. Now, if he also goes with NB shocks which tend to raise the car 1"... NB GR2s, $260 - $300. ISC tophats - $160. Bump stops, $100. 7/8" front sway bar $100. NB springs, ? Oh, that's right, the OEM NB springs are nowhere near the FM spring rates... Then his one option may be MS springs. NB GR2s, $260, MS springs, $280, NB tophats, $100. $640. Then fiddle with the sway bars for an additional $100, for a total of ~$740. But if he wants FM rates then he will have to go with 2.5" springs...

His cheapest option is to go with GR2s, FM bump stops, 7/8" sway bar. About $500 total.

If he wants FM spring rates - then just go with the $943 FM NA Stage 1.5 kit or go with the FM NB Stage 1 kit, add NB tophats, bump stops, $850. It's a proven product. Why try to duplicate it through trial and error, not to mention time and money?

If he wants to lower it and increase the handling, NA GR2s, $300, FCM shock mount kit, $263, 7/8" sway bar, $100, for a total of $663. Can he find the NA GR2s cheaper? Probably. Maybe $260. Then the total is $623.

It all depends on how much he is willing to spend and what he wants out of it. Stock upgrade - $500. Lowering on stock springs? - $650. Stiffer springs and lowering - $950. Stiffer springs and stock 'NA6 height - $850.

But, hey, if he wants to try Ebay coil overs, that's up to him. Me, I would advise against it. If he goes with stiffer springs he will need better, and more expensive, shocks. There's no way around it. If he decides to put ~325/225 pound springs on GR2s, then they will almost certainly blow up sooner or later.

It costs to do it right the first time. I usually say that it will cost $1000 minimum.

ggungel

12th October 2009, 21:53

I had AGXs with GC 375/250 springs. Lasted a year on N. IL roads. Became an oily mess on the rears. Suspect they bottomed out along the way, as dampening and rebound control was disappearing before they blew their seals.

Now have FM stage 1.5, and a FM 1.6L (7/8") sway on front, no rear. Combo of Illuminas, FM springs, FM bumpstops, and FM rear mounts is the best this DD has ever handled. I say it gave me my go-kart back. Ride height? Front wheel center to fender lip is just under 13" (12 15/16's?) , and the rear just over 13" (13 and not quite 1/8"). Shoulda' done it a year ago. Live and learn.

ekozy1

22nd October 2009, 16:02

I wanted to post an update for all to read...

I put Tokico Illuminas and Tokico 1" lowering springs on the car last night. It was an interesting task. The Illuminas came with a metal spacer and 2 bolts. There were no instructions that came with the shocks, so neither myself nor the other 2 guys that were helping me were clueless about where to use that spacer and both bolts. We ended up putting the spacer and BOTH bolts on the very tip top of the whole shock assembly. Hopefully that's right!

It drives pretty good now. I've got the rears set on 4 and the fronts on 3 and it doesn't ride anywhere near too rough for me. I'm even considering increasing it to 5 rear/4 front.
Now I just have to search the forum and find a good set of alignment specs for this setup and get it aligned! It's difficult to find a shop that will do a 4 wheel alignment with me IN the car. I'm going to have to settle for an alignment without me in it.

Also last night, I tore my dash apart and replaced the heater core. I don't know who said you can replace the core without taking the dash apart, but IMO they are full of it. I tried, and it's impossible to do without damaging a new core. I also found that someone in the past has had this dash apart before. There were a total of 6 screws missing, the culprits for my many squeaks, rattles, and noises, and one of the mounting tabs for the metal pan that covers the bottom of the steering column was broken as well.

I tried to change the a/c condenser while I was on a roll, but at 3AM I had to call it a night. Does anyone have any ideas how to change the condenser? It seems like it's meant to be taken out from the bottom, but is near impossible to remove the 4 mounting bolts without taking more things apart. There's not enough room to get to all of the bolts by hand.

ggungel

22nd October 2009, 21:13

ekozy1

23rd October 2009, 10:17

Glad to hear it is driving well. Did you round out the 'D' shaped hole in the top mounts? That allows the shaft to fully insert through the top mount, which is important for shock travel. As for the spacer, if yours are standard top mounts, then you are correct: the space goes on the top side same as the nuts.

Yeah, I had to round the flat edge off AND make the hole bigger also. It wouldn't fit over the shaft unless I made it bigger.

Ahkinusa

23rd October 2009, 10:33

I wanted to post an update ... I've got the rears set on 4 and the fronts on 3 and it doesn't ride anywhere near too rough for me. I'm even considering increasing it to 5 rear/4 front...

/\ Interesting. In general, people set their front more stiff or same as rear like F3/R2, F2/R1, or F5/R5.

ekozy1

23rd October 2009, 10:38

/\ Interesting. In general, people set their front more stiff or same as rear like F3/R2, F2/R1, or F5/R5.

I assumed that since there is less travel in the rear that those shocks should be set stiffer. I just took a stab in the dark with the settings. I'm thinking that I'll leave the rears set where they are, only because it's a HUGE pain in the ass to adjust Tokicos on the rear of the car. Almost made me wish I had gone with a set of KYB AGXs....I could have adjusted all 4 easily.

wallijonn

23rd October 2009, 11:01

I'm thinking that I'll leave the rears set where they are, only because it's a HUGE pain in the ass to adjust Tokicos on the rear of the car.

See, you should'a bought the FM NB Stage 1 kit - then you could've adjusted them from underneath, right on the shock, just like the AGXs.

ekozy1

23rd October 2009, 11:08

See, you should'a bought the FM NB Stage 1 kit - then you could've adjusted them from underneath, right on the shock, just like the AGXs.

That makes no sense. How am I supposed to be able to adjust Tokico shocks from underneath? From what I'm seeing (http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?action=product&sku=13-16650) the Stage 1 kit only comes with shocks and springs.....the exact same shocks I have now. Can you elaborate?

Ahkinusa

23rd October 2009, 11:14

...I'm thinking that I'll leave the rears set where they are, only because it's a HUGE pain in the ass to adjust Tokicos on the rear of the car. Almost made me wish I had gone with a set of KYB AGXs....I could have adjusted all 4 easily.

Just leave the rear metal cover off, so you can adjust the rear whenever you want to.

BeerBurner

23rd October 2009, 12:46

I just bent some of the metal back so that I could easily fit my hand in there with a screwdriver. It's still a bit more of a PITA than not having the panel there and you have to do it by feel, but it allows me to not worry about something sliding into the lines (whatever they are) back there during my normal driving.

BB.

wallijonn

23rd October 2009, 13:52

How am I supposed to be able to adjust Tokico shocks from underneath?

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4537&parentid=0&stocknumber=13-58027

http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/13-58026.jpg

mods, if direct linking is not allowed, or if FM requests that it not be done, please mod as necessary.

ekozy1

23rd October 2009, 14:48

Greg MacD

25th October 2009, 10:54

Sorry for the hijack.......if using a set of shock/springs for a NA, I am guessing that the Shock mounts for an NB will work(for the rears) to give the shock a little more room to work, I am also guessing that the NB mount is going to lower the car an additional 1/2" due to the mount being smaller and using differant bump stops.

I am going to be putting a set of Tein SS coil overs in my car, I am looking to see what my best option of upper shock mounts would be, i am leaning towards the ISC mounts, but if the NB's will do the same thing for 1/2 the price.......and I would guess if I do use the ISC's I should go with both the front and rear hats.

Thanks, again sorry for jumping in, I just needed some clarification on what was talked about in this thread.

wallijonn

25th October 2009, 11:58

If you want to use an NA shock with an NB shoch mount you will probably have to use FCM mounts. If you will be using your stock NA front shock mounts then the way to go would be with the FM rear mounts.

I've wondered if the stock NB mounts can be used with 2.5" springs or if a round retainer of some sort has to be used inside the shock mount to provide a 2.5" spring seat.

wallijonn

25th October 2009, 12:04

it's not like I plan to change my settings all the time anyhow. I'm going to leave them at one setting and call it a day.

They're only supposed to be adjusted once - to fine tune the car. The problem comes in with us obsessive drivers - we'll probably be adjusting (playing) with the settings every time we buy new tyres, change to lighter wheels, when we get a new alignment or a different sway bar, when we change tyre pressures, when we adjust the car height, when we move to a different city, when the weather changes from hot to cold or from cold to hot, ...

It's probably the AutoX'ers who would like to firm it up two clicks for racing then un-do it for going home.

But they are made to fine tune the shock, not be adjusted all the time.

Alik

25th October 2009, 16:04

The problem comes in with us obsessive drivers -

Um, excuse me, but, please, don't bundle me with the likes of you.
Obsessive, ha!

I'm just plain nuts! :thumbs:

wallijonn

26th October 2009, 10:52